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Anna Faris is just one of many celebs with a podcast and the latest guest on her popular show, Anna Faris is Unqualified, was tattoo artist and makeup maven, Kat Von D. The two women spoke about tattoos, of course, but they also got into the topic of monogamy and past relationships—and that’s when things got especially candid and personal. When Faris asked Von D to tell her about the worst date she’d ever had, Kat revealed that she’d maybe never been on what one would consider a proper date and had a history of dating the wrong person.

“Prior to my husband [Rafael Reyes], I dated nothing but jerks, so I don’t even know if I’ve ever been taken out on a date,” Von D told Faris. “Is that sad?”

Kat’s list of famous exes includes Steve-O, Deadmau5, Nikki Sixx and Jesse James and though Von D was careful not to name names, she did reveal that one of her exes “intensely” cheated on her. “I would go through these consciously celibate periods in between relationships,” said Kat. “You know, I dated somebody who cheated on me, like, intensely. I don’t even know how it’s physically possible to f*** so many people.” Von D detailed that she had found emails and uncovered that there were “18 confirmed people that he had sex with in the one year” they were together. “I think I was maybe in denial a little bit,” she told Anna. “I wanted this to be real and it wasn’t. I used to be a hopeless romantic.”

But Anna let Kat know she wasn’t alone as she, too had experienced betrayal. Faris suspected that her partner at the time wasn’t faithful and when she questioned him, he tried to shut her down, causing her to doubt herself and her instincts. “I woke them up in the middle of the night and was like, ‘Are you f*******g so-and-so?’ He was like, ‘You’re crazy,'” recalled Faris, who was previously married to Chris Pratt and Ben Indra and also didn’t reveal the identity of the unfaithful partner.

“And I’m pretty oblivious sometimes, especially in relationships. Of course, I don’t want to believe that anything [is wrong], but there was that gut feeling that was starting to grow more and more.”

“Listen, I believe that intuition is not something witchy,” said Von D. “I think it’s science, like our body is capable of picking up on signals faster than our mind is able to process them so most of the time when you have this sense of instinct, it’s not an illusion. I think if something tells you that something doesn’t feel right, most of the time I listen to that voice within me.”

Faris concurred. “Not to be too gender-specific, I do think as women we’re sort of taught to suppress fear or suspicion, because we might be deemed as suspicious or neurotic or crazy or whatever. I think in my case I was like, ‘Okay, maybe he’s right. Maybe I am crazy,'” but noted that her friends confirmed years later that he did, indeed, cheat. “The fact that I felt those things and I chose to bury them [stinks].”

Kat was thoughtful and reflective about her heartbreak saying she was able to learn and grow from it.

“I know my power. I know I’m an amazing girlfriend. But I didn’t think [the cheating] was about me. This was about his own issues. That he’s trying to compensate and find validation through sex or through other people. And that made me sad for him. I’m in a good relationship now with my husband. I had to go through all of that to be the best girlfriend or wife or partner and to find the right person for me, too.”

Faris and Von D joked early in the podcast that back in the day they were a couple of misfits—though Kat was a goth punk and Anna was decidedly more vanilla in her fashion and music choices—and probably would have been best friends in high school.

Can they be best friends now? Because their support of each other, and unlikely friendship, is all kinds of amazing.

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